Is there really any need, just how much more musical information is there below such low notes, do you really miss anything by not having big speaker cabinets with bigger drivers that can go so low that they could damage your intestines, so why the desire to go so low it will only end up creating more room issues, surely more trouble and expense than what they are worth.

A lot of modern electro music contains information in the recording that go so low, so if you listen to this type of music I would say you need it.

Plus Organ music, I'm sure the organ has some very very low notes.

I think unless you get as full a spectrum as possible you miss out on something . For eg , oI used to have speakers with ' hyper tweeters' which only kicked in well above the human limit for highs . A s an experiment I covered them with some polystyene box's znd the sound was totally different with the high notes having no dynamics at all. You couldn't hear a note start or stop. Wierd but true ?
I should imagine it's true at the bass as well. I think just because you can't hear a note directly doesn't mean its not effecting the rest of the sound. If those notes exist in real life then I think 'yes, we should strive to get them in our system.

If you like you intestines rearranged then yes go for it, such lower and loud frequencies can actually be harmful and kill you.

Then bring on death

I agree with the previous honorable gentleman - if it's in the natural domain, then it's a must have.

Need? No. Want? Usually, yes.

busho wrote

Quote:

Now bass on the other hand is different, although lower frequencies are somewhat inaudible they can be felt and add to the overall atmosphere and feel of the music.

Same effect and same view then bushter.......even if both are effected for a different reason.

The problem is that an overabundance of something in the audio spectrum smears the rest of the spectrum with its effect, ruining timing information in the process. So if someone is looking too hard for an open sound, they end up with a bright system which becomes unbearable and if someone is looking for bass they end up with either a warm system or a boomy system because the speakers excite the room modes.

Therefore, an absence of bass does not necessarily a bad system make. Sure, it couold go deeper but if the timing and rhythm - and therefore the musical message - is preserved then that's a good system. Typical rooms suffer room mode interactions at or around 40hz so if a speaker is quoted at -3db for 35hz (typical), the speaker is already 'down' a bit by 40hz and the interaction is ameliorated. Of course, if you have a genuinely large room (say 8m x 6m) then the room interaction is much lower and full range speakers will work. The other situation where they will work is in a very small room where none of the dimensions are greater than 3m in which case the room mode is once again relatively benign - or uncontrollable!

Organs will go down as far as 16 Hz. Hear it once and you'll never be the same again. Piano goes down to 28 Hz.

What Malteser said about room interactions is true, but - and there is always a "but" - it's also true that ALL speakers tend to introduce large phase shifts as they approach their frequency limits. To us who listen, this is manifested as clarity and definition, the more phase shift, the less clarity and definition. This typically results in boomy bass and pseudo bass.

Thus, if your speaker can hit say 25 Hz at -3 dB, and your room will not take more than say 40 Hz, your lower limit will be that imposed by the room, but in return, what you will get is clean and clear right down to the room cutoff.

Because of these phase shifts and their disasterous effects on clarity and definition, the entire dilemma is in fact a pseudo dilemma - your speakers need to go down as low as possible, period. Unfortunately, for them to be able to do so, they would need either large cone bass drivers, or a mix of multiple smaller cone drivers, in both cases backed up with some serious enclosure volumes, well above what any reasonable room will accept. This in turn means a much, much bigger and better box, which also means a much bigger price. A JBL professional series driver, say 15", will set you back no less than 1,500 quid, if not more. It's a beast in which the magnet alone weighs in at more than 12 kilos (app. 26 lbs). ATS is no different, Audax pro drivers as well, etc.

This problem of volume/bass extension used to much better dealt with by acoustic or air suspension speakers, with which the air inside the box acted as spring, the end result being an earlier roll-off, lower speaker efficiency, but a MUCH cleaner bass from even smaller speakers due to much less phase shift. AR was God in this respect.

The dilemmas of more or less bass, more or less bright speakers, and so forth I find to be silly; I believe we need our speakers to be as linear and as neutral in character as possible. Of course, price will have much to do with that. Speakers good for rock but poor for classical music, or vice versa, simply means these are poor speakers. A speaker should be impartial to the type of music you listen to, and the fact that some are not simply means they have not been designed well enough.

Good god do people actually buy speakers that are only any good for a particular genre ? Surely this is a point so obvious it shouldn't even need highlighting dvv ? Mind you there have been record players for £10000 in the british rags getting 5 stars with the added coment " but rock fans should maybe look elsewhere " gobsmacking ain't it?
The best one recently was " this turntable easy character may prove a little laid back for some but this reviewer just found it made it easier to live with " yup it got the big ***** out of ***** !

U getting at something like these Dvv?

Hedlund Horns Lowther DX2 drivers

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No Bushytip, I own very classically designed speakers. Son runs a pair of AR 94 (initial series, the world's first 2.5 way speaker, changed later on several times, each time taking a further step down the quality ladder), fully restored of course, wife runs a pair of JBL Ti 600 speakers (a nice, lower midrange all rounder) and I own my B&M Audio Monitor 1041 speakers (my idea, co-developed with friends from that now unfortunately passed away company).

I believe that a three way speaker system is optimal because it allows one to optimize each driver's portopn of the whole. Sure, it takes a lot of time and trouble to get it right, but once done, the reward can be outstanding.

I have yet to hear a single driver loudspeaker which sounds tonally balanced to me, price notwithstanding. To me, they usually feature a very good to excellent midrange, but fall short at the extremes, typically dismally. To one who used to bang on drums, lack or poor show on bass is an immediate dismissal. Just as with boomy, muddy bumbling bass and pseudo bass.